NASA Shuttle-Mir Oral
History Project
Edited Oral History Transcript
Yuri Nikolayevich
Glazkov
Interviewed by Mark Davison
Cape Canaveral, Florida – 31 May 1998
Davison: Today
is May 31 [1998], and the interview is with General Yuri Glazkov of
the Crew Training and Exchange Working Group, and I'm Mark Davison,
being assisted by Rebecca Wright and Paul Rollins.
Good morning. General Glazkov, could you please tell us about your
background?
Glazkov: That would at least take fifteen minutes.
Davison: That would be fine.
Glazkov: I joined the Cosmonaut Corps in 1965. In 1975, I flew to
the orbital station Salyut 5 and Soyuz 24. The mission was not that
long, but for that time it was considered quite long; it lasted eighteen
days.
After a while, being a member of the Cosmonaut Corps, I transferred
to work with the training. I was the head of the Department of Training,
where I had all the instructors who trained to fly on Soyuz or Salyut
and then later on the Mir station. I was the deputy heading the science
department. Then I headed the training department, and now I'm the
first deputy at the Russian State Research Gagarin Training Center.
As far as my educational background, I have a doctorate. I'm a professor
and academician, and I am an author as well. I published a book. But
I think that's plenty. How much can I talk about myself? (laughter)
Davison: Let me ask you a specific question about your Soyuz 24 flight
to the Salyut 5 space station.
Glazkov: Yes, please.
Davison: We read in one of the books that it was reported that you
caught a cold on flight and you came up with an idea of how to cure
yourself of the cold by sunbathing in front of the window. Can you
tell us about that?
Glazkov: This is very simple, a very simple cure. You just put your
nose to the window and the solar arrays cure your cold. It's very
simple, and I suggest to anybody who has a cold, try to fly up there.
(laughter)
Davison: Also the book mentioned that on your flight that you had
to exchange some of the air in the Salyut space station, and that
almost created a breeze by opening the dump valve on one end and intake
valve on the other to move the air through there. Could you talk about
that a little bit?
Glazkov: It is so pleasant. I want to thank you for being so informed
about my flight. This experiment I consider, and a lot of experts
consider, very important. It is called replacement of atmosphere.
Of course, when a station is in orbit for a long time, such as Mir
and Salyut, the products of science experiments and hardware, life-support
hardware, contaminate to a certain degree the atmosphere. There are
experiments with animals, with birds, and you understand that all
of it gets into the environment--different smells.
So a system was designed which would allow us to clear the air, so
to speak, to replace the atmosphere, because, as you understand, you
can't open the window up there. A very interesting system was designed.
Compressed air was released from tanks, and that formed a force pushing
the contaminated or the bad air out. For that purpose, a valve had
to be opened so the not-clean air could be dumped outside into the
vacuum. For a space flight, loss of atmosphere is a bad situation,
but we had to do it voluntarily. But that experiment went very well.
The systems now are also used here on the ground. In storing produce,
fungi forms and other problems occur, and so this system allows for
good and sufficient storage of frozen vegetables, especially in southern
climates. In particular, we used and assessed the use of such systems
in Indonesia, and it proved itself well.
Davison: Interesting. Can you tell us how you became involved with
the Phase 1 and Mir-Shuttle Program?
Glazkov: My personal involvement in this program started from the
directive document which established the program. I was involved in
the training of the first American astronaut, [Norman E.] Thagard,
who flew to our space station on the Soyuz vehicle with our crew and
returned on the Shuttle. I personally was there to greet him when
he returned. It was a very interesting program, and the most important
thing, in my view, is that it was a very necessary and needed program.
It was started timely. People who developed this program, who first
thought of the idea of uniting the two space vehicles, the Mir station
and the Shuttle, are very smart people.
There is a scientific definition which is called the systematic approach.
This is a very important approach in researching all kinds of systems,
specifically systems when not only technical means are involved, but
people as well. If we evaluate separately the Mir station and the
Shuttle, these are wonderful space vehicles which each has its own
specifics, but integrating the two allowed us to explore other qualities
and properties which, stand alone, the system did not have, but in
integrating the two, allowed us to explore. So it is not just a great
technical achievement, it is also a scientific achievement.
Davison: This brings up some very interesting points.
Glazkov: I am an interesting person. (laughter)
Davison: Can you tell us about the training that was involved when
you had to integrate the two vehicles like you discussed earlier?
Glazkov: It warrants a long explanation, but I will try to be brief.
In an integration process there is a number of objectives. The first
one is, you have to unite the people who will now work on the joint
program. First of all, people who come to start working on this program
have various educational backgrounds, various cultural backgrounds,
various histories of their countries and their formation, various
personal characteristics. So the first objective is to make people
understand each other. So in the initial stages of this program, we
had to conduct cultural awareness sessions, not just with the crew
members, but with the people who would work with them as well. This
was done in the States and in Russia as well, and it was a good experience,
very effective.
Another thing which we had to look into is the difference: the Space
Shuttle does not go on long-duration flight. Our space station Mir,
on the other hand, we have the experience of long-duration flights.
NASA had some long-duration experience with Skylab missions which
lasted, as far as I remember, twenty-six days, fifty-two days, eighty-four
days, but there was no experience in operating a space system for
a long-duration flight such as we had, for half a year, a year, even
a year and a half. So both systems of training had to be adapted to
each other. We had to work on this issue on the American side as well.
Don Puddy was involved in that, at that time. And we found a common
integrated system of training. Therefore, it led to successful training
and missions and the flight of Russian cosmonauts on the Space Shuttle
and the American astronauts on Mir station.
I am very happy and proud for Shannon Lucid, who established an absolute
record for a long-duration stay in space for a woman, and she established
it on our Mir station. This is a great achievement for us, for the
Russian side.
I also wanted to stress that the work in open space is a very complicated
achievement, and our training allowed this work to be done by Russian
cosmonauts performing EVAs outside the Shuttle and American astronauts
performing this work outside the Mir station. I consider it a huge
success. I guess that's about it. Of course, there are also psychological
aspects of training, and if you're interested, we can talk about it
later.
I think the main result of Phase 1, which is coming to an end, is
our successful transition to the International Space Station. Of course,
everything that is ending now is not really an end; it is flowing
into the building, assembling of the future Space Station and its
future operation. I heard President Bill Clinton a few times calling
the future International Space Station "the bridge into the future,"
and I do believe that it is the transfer of our achievements of the
twentieth century into the twenty-first century, especially for our
kids. That's why I'm preparing my daughter to become a cosmonaut.
Davison: Very good. Can you talk about the differences in style and
techniques, or the similarities, that you saw between the Americans
and Russians in training?
Glazkov: I wanted to say that at this moment there is almost no difference,
because we trained and worked together and now we have a resulting
experience. The thing is that the wonderful space vehicle Shuttle
does not fly in long-duration flights, so there was no necessity of
performing repairs, maintenance operations, remove something, disassemble
something, etc.
Now when the orbital station Mir is flying for twelve years and probably
will fly for another year, and not because it cannot fly any longer,
but there are certain agreements that this will be the end of the
station. But the station is a lab, a laboratory, where all the research
is being conducted, but it's also a home for people as well. But as
you know, any house we live in breaks once in a while. You have to
go to the store, buy something, replace something, repair something.
Therefore, in our training we make a great emphasis on great experience
and knowledge of the systems which might need maintenance or repair.
So this is the specifics. In addition to teaching people to control
these systems, to operate the systems, we also need to teach them
this other aspect about the system. So, first of all, we had to teach
people to perform these operations, as well as establish a system
of transport technical means which would allow us to bring the necessary
equipment on orbit. Of course, we take all these factors into consideration
in our training program.
American astronauts who took part in our training program also had
this kind of training for repairs and maintenance to a certain degree.
You probably know this, that the American astronauts on board our
station did not just have the research duties, but were working as
engineer, too. This was not just due to the technical knowledge they
accumulated, but it was due to the trust we developed, in trusting
them to perform these duties, and this is a very important psychological
aspect, us allowing them to operate our systems.
Davison: He's exactly right. I talked to Norm Thagard after he returned
from his flight, and he explained to me that he did some of the soldering
repairs on some of the equipment when he was up on Mir. Can you talk
about the psychological factors and the crew working together? Is
that part of your training?
Glazkov: Of course it is. We have a special program of psychological
training. First I will tell about our program, our system of psychological
training, and then I'll tell you about the joint system.
We conduct a special monitoring research when we put our crew members
into complete isolation for a certain period of time, into an isolation
chamber. I had to, myself, be in this chamber for fourteen days. It
is called that you're "alone in public." Everybody is watching
you, but you can't see anybody. There are certain psychological nuances
there, because you fight yourself.
Also I had to experience, for thirty-five days, a test of the orbital
station on the ground. At that time there was two of us, but the hatches
were closed and we were absolutely alone for thirty-five days. This
experience created different problems. Here we had to tolerate each
other, forgive each other, and supplement each other's faults or experiences.
This creates its own problems. One person doesn't like certain traits
of another, and so you have to learn to adapt to each other.
When the crew is three people or more, that becomes even more difficult.
Every person has his own personality. We even noticed that a certain
thing happens when two people unite against the third one. But this
changes. This combination changes. When I was on board of a ship going
in the waters of your Atlantic Ocean, this was the ship Yuri Gagarin,
the crew was 325 people, and even more problems. You can observe even
more problems. In that, we have to bear in mind, were people of the
same country, from the same cultural background, from, let's say,
former Soviet Union. If you were a Russian or a Ukrainian, you basically
had the same background. But here you have an international element
coming into play, and that makes things even more difficult.
Of course, naturally we had to remember the year 1975 and the Soyuz-Apollo
Program. I'll just mention the commanders: Tom [Thomas P.] Stafford
and Aleksandr Leonov. They were able to find a common language, so
at that time the confrontation between our countries was quite sharp.
So we built on that experience, and during the training, people get
closer and closer together and begin to understand each other.
This past winter we conducted a training, a survival training, after
an emergency launch, emergency return, and American and Russian crew
members worked together, and they understood each other and worked
very well together. Now the training will take place on the Black
Sea, where our cosmonauts and American astronauts will be training
in emergency landing on water.
Another very important aspect, we built three wonderful cottages where
the American astronauts are housed, and they can bring their families
if they desire. We also took your experience in having parties when
people become very familiar with each other.
In summary, actually I'm a professor of psychology and education.
I wanted to say that the most important quality which united our cosmonauts,
astronauts, and all the people working in this joint space effort,
that is professionalism. Because we're pilots, cosmonauts, astronauts,
we understand each other. We understand what a space flight means,
what training means. Sometimes we even have to go through loss and
bury some of our friends. Thank God there wasn't that many.
If you allow me to fantasize a little bit, because I do write books
on science fiction, if we dream a little bit, and a lot is being said
in the States now about the flight to Mars, it's a very good idea
which is supported by the management and by the government as well,
so if we pose this question, is the human race ready to go to Mars,
we could talk about it in the aspect of training. So, again, there
is a technical side to it as well as a human factor.
As you remember, Apollo landed at a distance of 365,000 kilometers.
That was the longest distance from Earth and a great achievement of
the human race, and, by the way, was incredible precision. It was
about 100 meters from the designed point. So an incredible system
of navigation was developed. Of course, this is a very important factor
if we do go to Mars, because you have to navigate between stars. Otherwise,
you'll get lost. Or, for example, if we take the Mir station, which
has been on orbit more than twelve years, if we calculate how many
kilometers the station has been flying over the period of twelve years,
we could make it to the sun and back, and we don't want to go to the
sun. It's too hot. (laughter)
So what I'm saying, what I'm driving at, the technical issues, to
a great degree, have been resolved to achieve such a mission. From
the human aspect of it, I do understand the physiology will allow
us to achieve that objective. For example, our cosmonaut Pelyakov
spent a year and four months on orbit, and that would be the duration
to go to Mars and back. But from a psychological point of view, there
could be specifics. One thing is, you're orbiting the Earth, and it's
about 400 kilometers from you, and people can come to your aid, can
fly up and help you. Another thing is, to go to Mars, that is tens
of millions of kilometers away. Now cosmonauts and astronauts can
marvel at our Earth, looking at it, but when you go to Mars, you won't
be able to see it. You will lose our Earth between the stars. So,
that's it.
Davison: Very insightful comments.
Glazkov: Thank you.
Davison: You're welcome. Can you tell us about your current duties
as the first deputy of the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center [GCTC]?
Glazkov: Naturally, everything that is done at the GCTC is overseen
by our head of the center, General Klemok, who is a cosmonaut, and
I am involved in everything as well. The main objective, of course,
is the cosmonaut training. We have developed a very good scientific
system of training which has been proved by real flight. My duties
encompass development of training equipment; scientific research in
the area of training; all our flight activities; our testing activities
on the sea, in the air. So all of this is part of my duties, but I
could talk about it for a very long time because the scope of my duties
is very wide.
But in my own personal life, in my family, I also conduct flight training.
My daughter already has been flying forty minutes in microgravity,
two jumps with a parachute recently, studied in the school for young
astronauts at Johnson Space Center, and graduated from this school.
In August, my wife, her mother, will teach her to fly a plane. For
many years she was an absolute champion in Europe and in the world,
in piloting, and so she is willing to undertake the duty in acrobatics.
So, that's it.
Davison: Thank you very much.
[End of interview]