NASA Shuttle-Mir Oral
History Project
Edited Oral History Transcript
Yuri P.
Kargopolov
Interviewed by Mark Davison
Cape Canaveral, Florida – 29 May 1998
Interviewers:
Mark Davison, Rebecca Wright, Paul Rollins
Davison: I'm speaking with Mr. Yuri Kargopolov. He's head of the Crew
Exchange and Training Working Group for the Shuttle-Mir Program, Phase
1 Program.
Good afternoon. Would you please tell us a little bit about your background,
where you're from in Russia and what your educational background is?
Kargopolov: I'm Yuri Kargopolov. Pleased to meet you. I'm a native
of Byelorussia; Belarus, as they call it now. I graduated from Military
Engineering Academy, named after Professor Zhukovsky. So my first
order was the Air Force, actually. I was doing technical work for
the Air Force. Upon my graduation from the academy, I was hired by
the Cosmonaut Training Center and that was in 1974, so since that
year I'm presently working at the Cosmonaut Training Center.
Davison: The Gagarin Training Center that you're at now, or Star City?
Kargopolov: Yes, Star City. So this is the place where we train all
our crews for missions on our manned vehicles, Soyuz and various space
stations that we have had over the course of those years. So, as I
said, I started working at Star City in 1974, and that was exactly
a year before our first joint project, Soyuz-Apollo, or Apollo-Soyuz.
So when I started, the crew training was already on its way at Star
City. Unfortunately, at that time I was not directly involved in crew
training for Apollo-Soyuz Program. At that time I was working at the
department that was responsible for crew training for our then orbital
station Salyut 4. So for the first few years, I was quite actively
involved in crew training for Salyut 4 and then Salyut 5, 6, and Salyut
7. So I was an integrated training instructor. That was my primary
responsibility.
So it's really very nice for me to be here now when Ryumin is about
to start his mission, because I remember when I started my career
as a training instructor, he was one of my students preparing for
his mission on Salyut 4.
Davison: It must be neat to be able to follow his career and able
to close it out together with the Shuttle.
Kargopolov: Yes, of course. It's very neat and we have a lot of fond
memories together.
Davison: What are your current duties in the Phase 1 Shuttle-Mir Program?
Can you explain what your working group does?
Kargopolov: Our group was formed as a joint training group and the
crew exchange group for both Mir-Shuttle and Mir-NASA programs. When
we started working on this joint program, my American counterpart
was Donald Puddy. I would like to express my admiration and gratitude
to this person. I really learned a lot from him.
Our main responsibility was to prepare Russian cosmonauts and American
astronauts for a joint approach for training astronauts in Russia
and our cosmonauts here, so that they could successfully complete
their tasks on orbit.
Davison: Let's talk about the training a little bit in the first crew
that came over with Norm [Norman E.] Thagard and Bonnie [J.] Dunbar.
How did that process take place? I know that the language barrier
was one thing you had to overcome, but were there other things that
happened?
Kargopolov: Yes, that was, of course, a challenging experience, although
I have to say that that was not a real serious problem for us, because
we already by that time had a pretty good experience in training foreign
cosmonauts to fly on our space station. I don't know if you know,
but we actually trained foreign cosmonauts from more than twenty countries
to fly on the Mir station.
So basically we have the same approach for everybody who comes to
our training center. First three months are normally spent just by
studying the Russian language. It's a very intensive Russian-language
course. Then after that, we start slowly immersing them into all technical
subjects such as design of the vehicle, design of various elements
and components, subsystems, and so on. So it's a gradual process.
Davison: Did the training syllabus change whether it was a long mission
or a short mission, or what vehicle you rode up, whether it was the
Soyuz or the Shuttle? Were there differences?
Kargopolov: That's exactly right, so we determine first what are the
responsibilities of a crew member is going to be duration of his or
her mission, and then we'll try to tailor this training program accordingly.
We always take into consideration individual qualities of each crew
member, his or her experience, past experience, how many missions,
if it's the first mission. If they're experienced astronauts, then
of course we would not probably go through our certain things with
them, so it's pretty much customized for any particular person.
That was the approach that we took when we tried to identify the right
training program for Norm Thagard and Bonnie Dunbar. Norman Thagard
had three Shuttle missions and Bonnie Dunbar has also flown in the
Shuttle, so that was all taken into consideration when we developed
the training program for them. So they both really did not require
intensive basic training, so we were able to concentrate on more specific
topics that were specific to that particular mission.
Davison: How about for the first crew for the International Space
Station, with Bill Shepherd and Sergei Krikalev I'm sorry I don't
remember the other crew member's name. Is their training going to
be similar to the Shuttle-Mir?
Kargopolov: Yes, exactly. Actually, they started their training about
a year and a half ago, so they will have some sessions out here at
the Johnson Space Center and then they go to Cosmonaut Training Center.
They've been in the process for a year and a half now. Again, I'd
like to emphasize we really try to adjust the general program for
each particular crew member based on their individual tasks for each
particular mission.
The experience that we gained in Phase 1 helped us very much to train
the first crew, so we use it constantly. In fact, many of the tasks
that they will have to perform as part of their mission on the Space
Station verified and pretty much are known from our experience in
Phase 1.
This first crew will be delivered via Soyuz. This is something that
we already went through when we trained Norm Thagard to fly on Soyuz
to Mir. This crew will be returning on Shuttle. Two of our Russian
cosmonauts, Vladimir Dezhurov and Gennady Strekalov have done it before,
and they were trained to do so at the Johnson Space Center, so this
is something, again, that we went through already. They will have
to stay on board the Space Station for quite a long time. Again to
go back to the Phase 1, this is the ninth long joint mission that
we went through and we already have necessary procedures written for
such joint survival on the Mir station so that we can just follow
the steps. It's not going to be a great challenge. So the training
will involve operation of various Space Station systems, training
to perform various scientific experiments. We'll train them to do
EVAs. Again, all of these have been performed many times and they
will be just doing something that's been done in the past.
Davison: Can you tell us your most memorable experience in the Mir-Shuttle
Program or in the space program?
Kargopolov: I can come up with many memorable experiences. Of course,
one of the most memorable experiences was at the very beginning of
my career at the Cosmonaut Training Center, just to become familiar
with all the facilities, meeting all these new people. It was a remarkable
experience. Then, of course, I will never forget my work with Russian
crew members as Aleksandr Leonov and Kubasov and also it was a great
experience working with General Stafford during his Apollo-Soyuz mission
and meeting other people who were involved in that program.
It was an amazing thing, actually, to watch that mission evolve. I
remember how we were watching the ceremonial opening of the hatches
between the docked Apollo and Soyuz vehicles and how both commanders
shook their hands. That was a very neat thing to witness. It's a great
thing now to really understand that that handshake allowed us to be
where we are right now, and it's great to see that after so many years
we are again working together and doing something so useful. I'm very
happy to be where I am.
I'd like to use this opportunity and say how grateful I am to Aleksandr
Leonov, because he was my mentor and he really contributed a lot to
my education, me becoming who I am right now. I learned a lot from
that person.
Of course, I cannot just miss an opportunity to tell you about two
other most memorable experiences, when for the first time I was at
Baikonur and I witnessed the Soyuz launch, and then ten years after,
I was here at the Cape Canaveral and I saw the Shuttle launch. Very
memorable for me.
Davison: Thank you very much for your information, your stories. Are
there any additional things you'd like to talk about, if you have
time?
Kargopolov: Well, I'd like to wish you all the best and all the success
to our next endeavor, the International Space Station, and also I'd
like to thank our American colleagues, especially people at the Johnson
Space Center, for their friendship, for their operation. I will hope
that we continue working together. So I'd like to wish all my American
colleagues all success and all best things in life.
Davison: I agree. There are a lot of very good friendships that are
made through this program.
Kargopolov: Yes, of course.
Davison: Thank you.
[End of interview]