NASA at 50 Oral History
Project
Edited Oral History Transcript
Kevin
L. Petersen
Interviewed by Rebecca Wright
Edwards, California – 4 December 2007
Wright: Today is December 4th, 2007.
We're at the [NASA] Dryden Flight Research Center in Edwards, California,
to speak with Center Director Kevin Petersen for the NASA at 50 Oral
History Project. Interviewer is Rebecca Wright assisted by Sandra
Johnson. In preparation for the space agency's 50th anniversary, the
NASA Headquarters History Office commissioned this oral history project
to gather thoughts, experiences, and reflections from NASA's top managers.
The information recorded today will be transcribed and sent to the
history archives in Washington, DC, where it will be accessed for
future projects. Thank you again for providing this time for us and
agreeing to talk with us for this project. We'd like to begin by asking
you to briefly describe your background and how you came into your
current position as Center Director.
Petersen: Okay. I've been at NASA Dryden
my whole career, which might be a little bit unusual these days. I
started out as a co-op [cooperative education] student back 36 years
ago. So came out here as a student. When I graduated in 1974 I came
on as a permanent employee as a research engineer. My background is
in aerospace engineering. My early years were involved with flight
research and research engineering here at NASA Dryden.
About the first third of my career was working various aspects of
research engineering, primarily involved with the specialties of flight
control and flight systems, advanced flight software and hardware
for experimental aircraft here at NASA Dryden. Then I went up through
various stages of management, starting out at section level, and the
branch level, and moving into some program positions. For the last
14 years now I've been basically in the front office first as Deputy
Director, now as Director for the last eight years. So I think my
background in research engineering and growing up in this environment
really has helped prepare me for the position, and I think at this
stage, given that I've been in the job for a number of years now,
I am pretty comfortable with the position.
Wright: As you mention, it's a unique
opportunity to be at one [NASA] Center all the years of your career.
Tell us what has changed over time, how Dryden has changed, but also
how NASA in general has changed over the years that you've been involved
with the agency.
Petersen: Well, I think, in the early
years, the Center was focused more on experimental aircraft and aeronautics,
and we had some space-related activities too, with the lifting bodies
and other vehicles associated with that. Part of it may be because
of my awareness of what has changed, given going through various jobs
at the Center, but I think Dryden has always had this capability of
being on the leading edge of some of the technology for flight. Really
as NASA's primary Center for experimental flight and flight test and
operations, I think this allows us to have that ability to be able
to operate in an environment of experimental test and risks associated
with that. So I think the amount of understanding of how to do the
risk management for those kinds of activities is a pretty important
element.
I think some of the things that changed, I think the Center has migrated
from one that was focused primarily on aeronautical and aerospace
type tests. Now we're more involved with the science side of NASA.
We're operating some airborne science platforms over the last decade
that we didn't have in the early years that I was here in support
of NASA's science mission directorate. Just recently we got another
program responsibility for the SOFIA program, the Stratospheric Observatory
for Infrared Astronomy that also bolsters our mix of programs to include
more and more science activities now.
We're also more involved now with the space exploration activity than
we've ever been in the past. We have a major responsibility for the
launch abort systems tests that are coming up in the next year one
of the first major demonstrations for the Constellation program. So
I think in contrast to some of the early years where we're probably
more and mostly focused on aeronautical technology and flight research,
we now have got a more balanced portfolio of work which really supports
all of NASA's Mission Directorates. So all four Mission Directorates,
we have work in all areas, including of course, as a primary alternate
landing site for the Space Shuttle when it's up.
Wright: Dryden’s history is so
entrenched in the field of aeronautics. What do you feel, in the next
50 years, the level of aeronautics will be as part of what the agency's
goals are?
Petersen: It's hard to predict what
the next 50 years are. You just look back 50 years and things have
changed tremendously. I think there'll be more engagement with the
integration of aeronautical and aerospace technologies to where 50
years from now routine access to space could easily be a reality,
not only for commercial or government, but also for private sector.
So that could easily be one of the big changes. I think one of the
other big changes that's likely in aeronautics is there'll be a lot
more automation and a lot more automated vehicles and a lot of unpiloted
vehicles, for example, that'll be mixed in with the piloted vehicles.
So the airplanes and the air traffic that'll be in the system 50 years
from now is likely to be a lot different mix of vehicle types than
what we're seeing today.
Wright: The information that you just
shared with us, how is that part of, or is that part of, your strategic
vision that you see that you're putting in place?
Petersen: I think, of course our vision
is first and foremost to support the agency's direction, which is
really to get all Centers involved with the space exploration activity
for the future. But I think in addition to that, we look at trying
to prepare the Center for the technology, the types of programs that
NASA will need, and the nation will need for that matter, for the
future. I think that involves, like I mentioned, there'll be less
separation between aeronautics and aerospace and science, and it'll
be more of an integrated environment I think for the future. So part
of our job is to prepare for that mix of responsibilities for the
future I think.
Wright: What are the lessons learned
that you've acquired through the years that you'll be applying to
move the Center into the future?
Petersen: As far as the technical lessons
learned, I think over the years one of the things that really sits
home with me is that there's really no substitute for experience and
experienced people. So experience really counts in the business that
we're in and how you have to manage the various risks and accept the
risks or mitigate the risks. So experience really counts. So when
you lose a key talent or key people, it takes some time to replace
that experience, and you can be vulnerable during that timeframe,
so you have to pay attention.
I think another key lesson is really paying attention to the details,
and I think this is probably true across most of NASA. But in the
business we're in in the high-tech end of things, there's a real need
to make sure that we understand the details to the point to where
you can ensure safe and efficient operations, and that things will
actually work that you're trying to develop.
I think one of the other things that we've learned over the years
is that you have to be wary of the routine operations. We tend to
focus most of our attention and most of our efforts on the program
or what we're doing for this project or that project to advance the
technology, and sometimes what gets left behind is what you have to
do in the supporting side, the more routine things, or you think of
as being more routine, that are just supporting elements for being
able to do that advanced technology work. Sometimes those routine
things are the ones that become higher-risk, because you're paying
less attention to them. So I think over the years that type of thing
can rear its head to where something that you would think would be
more of a routine are the things that you might hurt somebody on,
versus one of your experimental test activities.
Wright: That's interesting. Budget always
makes a difference in what you do and are not able to do. As Dryden
begins enjoying a whole new mix of responsibilities, how does budget
affect what you currently are doing and what you are planning to do
in the future? How are you able as Center Director to balance all
of that out with the budget that you have?
Petersen: There are always budget fluctuations,
and you have to be prepared for the ups and downs of the budget. At
Dryden the budget primarily drives our staffing capabilities, in contrast
to some of the larger Centers. The bulk of our budget really goes
to our civil servants and to our onsite staffing, versus major big
contracts on the outside. So the budget really drives the level of
staffing at the Center, and that really drives what our capabilities
and capacities are to do work. One of the things we're doing to try
to ride through the variations in the budget is one I had already
mentioned, which is to try to spread our portfolio work across all
the Mission Directorates within NASA, and then if one area, Aeronautics,
or if Exploration [Systems] for example has a peak either up or down,
the other areas that you have work in can help you ride through that
valley for example. So I think that's one thing that we've done probably
most recently. I think with Mike [Michael D.] Griffin coming in and
really asking every Center to step up to the space exploration side
of things, that has helped that. So our portfolio of projects is much
more balanced than it has been in the past, and that helps from an
overall budget volatility standpoint I think.
Wright: Will Dryden become more involved
with the private sector as far as space travel? Is that something
you foresee that you'll be involved with?
Petersen: I think that's hard to predict.
I think when and if NASA chooses to use some of those private space
ventures, we want to be involved. For example, there's already some
discussion about, from a scientific standpoint, getting involved with
some of the early suborbital flights that might occur in some of the
private side of things, and actually buying flights or buying time
on those activities. So it's certainly reasonable to expect that we
would be involved with helping planning that activity and fostering
it. So I think if NASA stays as it currently is, there will be a separation
between the civil government side and the private side. But I think
there'll be more and more utilization of private capabilities where
we can, certainly on the space side as they look at using private
transportation back and forth to space in the future. I think that
could be true in other areas too.
Wright: You've spent more than three
decades with NASA as you mentioned here. What do you believe NASA's
most important role is for the nation?
Petersen: Well, I think keeping the
nation on the cutting edge and being able to stand out as a symbol
for the country, I think as a symbol of innovation and excellence,
and really something that people can see when they see NASA, they
can relate to we're the best in the world in some of these areas.
I think people can be proud of that. So I think it's that inspiration
and that culture of excellence that not only for those within NASA,
and it helps rally people who want to work for NASA, but I think it's
also for the general public when they see NASA and they think about
some of the things that NASA can do, they can take pride in that from
a national standpoint, that this is one of the key things our nation
is doing to try to keep the nation in front.
Wright: What kind of impact do you think
it's had on society in the past? Like you said, you spent so much
of your life here, and yet you're going to spend so much more. What
kind of impact do you think it has on the people?
Petersen: Well, I think there's certainly
a lot of technical impact. Some of the products, you just look into
airplanes that we fly every day and the airplanes that you flew out
here to visit on. There's a lot of features in those airplanes that
were developed and fostered by NASA technology developments. I think
there's a lot of that. But it's not real readily visible or recognizable
to the public. But I think certainly the technology side of it across
the board, the spin-offs from the space technology areas as well as
major features of current modern-day military and commercial airplanes
were things that were fostered in NASA experiments decades ago. So
there's that piece of it. It's really across the board, not just in
aviation, but really in all fields where certain impacts of technology
have made life better on a day-to-day basis for people.
I think the other aspect of it is that, I think NASA has a real role
and an opportunity in the next generation of people in really working
with the students and the education side of it. People pay attention
when they see NASA is behind something, and I think you can really
turn the heads and maybe the turn the lives of some of the younger
people through some of the education and outreach activities. I think
that's an important aspect that NASA should continue.
Wright: Why would you encourage someone
to start a career with NASA and stay with it?
Petersen: Well, I think you just look
at what's in NASA's future, going back to the Moon, going on to Mars,
working on some of these things that you can only dream of right now.
I think that's a source of inspiration for young people to get into
some of the fields that are required to be able to work on things
like that. So, even if you reach one in 100, that student might see
something that day that gets them thinking that I want to go work
on that and gives them some dreams for the future.
Wright: Are there other areas of programs
or ideas that if you had the budget you'd like to add here at Dryden?
Petersen: Well, I think one of the strengths
of Dryden is the fact that we're one of the smallest Centers. That's
both a strength and a weakness in a certain sense. The fact that we're
small allows us to be quite agile on moving from one activity to another
and to actually provide an environment for employees that allows them
to work on the entire aspect of a project, not just one little piece
of one little specialty. So I think the fact that we're an end item
organization to where we actually have to operate machines and vehicles
that other people may have invented or dreamed up and try to make
them work is a real inspiration for the folks that work here. So I
think that aspect of it makes Dryden a little bit different than some
of the other Centers, in that we tend to have one primary mission,
which is atmospheric flight research and test, whereas other Centers
might have many different focused missions. So it allows us to I think
specialize a little bit more, but in that specialty it also allows
people to have great breadth and responsibility for some of the activities
that go on.
Wright: I guess I could close the session
by asking you how has your role changed since you took on the role
and responsibilities of Center Director? How has your role changed,
and how do you see it even changing in the future?
Petersen: Well, I think the more you
get involved with some of the senior management, you get a little
bit more of an understanding on how things work and migrate. My role
I think for the Center is one of trying to provide direction and leadership
into the direction in the programmatic activities that we're working
on and trying to foster that future work to make sure that three years
from now or five years from now that we have a healthy Center and
an environment that people will want to work in like they want to
work in today. I think the agency changes as administrations change
and as Administrators change. I think the way Mike Griffin operates
is clearly different than how Sean O’Keefe operated and clearly
different than how Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin operated. So each Administrator
brings their imprint on how people want to operate. I think all the
Centers and the employees have to adapt to a certain extent to different
directions and focuses and where they want to steer both the technical
side as well as the institutional side or the Center and the Center
management side of things.
Wright: Are there any other thoughts
that you'd like to share as you look behind and look ahead as far
as the agency is concerned?
Petersen: Well, I think just from the
standpoint of having had an entire career, from being a student through
the position that I'm in, I think it's been quite a ride and quite
an opportunity, that I would certainly hope that others that follow
would have the same kinds of opportunities that I've had over the
years to move from technical responsibilities and developing a certain
technical expertise to being able to manage and lead people and manage
and lead projects and now manage and lead collections of projects
and people. I think it's been quite an opportunity for me, and hard
for me to imagine how it might be better than working at a place like
this.
Wright: Well, we wish you the best.
Good luck with all the projects here. Thank you.
Petersen: Okay. Thank you very much.
[End
of interview]